Working With a Customer to Adjust a Quote to Fit a Budget

[click to watch video]

The person asked for advice when the quote came in over the money they had in the budget.

  1. What not to do
  2. Taking out double plastic, modifying roll up sides and keeping ends simple
  3. Working with us for flexibility on shipping

We received a call for a greenhouse quote with double plastic and roll up sides and were asked to make sure freight costs were included.

The total quote was just over $8000 and we received a note back saying that the budget they had was $6500 and asked if we had any advice on bringing the costs of the quote down.

One area that we consider a last resort is to reduce the size of the structure. When you reduce the building size by 25% you may reduce the cost by 10% and you will reduce potential return by 25%.

If you are not growing in the winter the extra cost of the double plastic with inflator which reduces heat loss can be taken out. It can be added again later when growing cycles change.

Going with steel and wirelock for the top of the roll-up sides is the cheaper way of doing it long-term but for immediate savings, go with wood.

Fancy ends do not contribute anything to the return of the greenhouse so keep it simple and use those savings for extra square footage of production space.

When you have flexibility on the timing of your project we are able to group more orders together to have each customer save on delivery expenses.

If this sounds like the kind of advice you would like to have when you are looking for when it is time to make a structure purchase, please keep MSS in mind. Our goal is to help you get it right and we look forward to working with you on your project.

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Featured Application: Marinas-Need help Shrink Wrapping or Storing Boats?

We have your solution! Our structures have been used by customers such as Hastings Marine and Terry Senecal in Gananoque for large scale protection while shrink wrapping boats and storing boats and RVs.

Keep the weather off you and extend the available time for working!

These buildings give you the environment to do a more effective job since you won’t be affected by wind and moisture. We would love to help you find the best solution for your business

Please call for Sample Storage Shelter Pricing
including 12mil woven tarp for roof & ends sizes 16′-30′ wide any length

  • boats stored in a structure

and we can even do custom projects if you require like this creative one for a customer living on his boat!

George Mainguy Structure

Featured Application: Salt & Sand Storage Buildings

salt storage

It’s prime time to get your salt storage structures from Multi Shelter Solutions to be delivered while it’s still great installation weather!

We offer many sizes to choose from, and can custom manufacture for your unique situation as well.

They can be mounted on blocks, shipping containers or direct to a ground beam or with anchor posts.Check out the pages below for extra pricing and information regarding these structures, and call us for your custom quote! We look forward to helping you find your shelter solution

Salt and Sand Storage
Large Storage

Important Building Permit Information updated

2021 update for Building Permit questions

A question we are asked regularly is “Do I need a building permit?”

Unfortunately, there is not a simple answer.

There is a wide range of interpretation of the rules, and there is seldom a month that goes by that we do not hear a new twist. This goes beyond the fact that certain areas get more snow and wind than others and therefore require sturdier buildings.

Please review this article fully since your proper understanding of the situation will determine how you approach the situation and often determines the outcome.  We are only offering information from our experience and do not guarantee any outcomes.

This type of building is not something which building officials deal with regularly and you do not want their confusion to become your problem and expense if you can help it.

Types of Building Classifications

MSS buildings are considered low human occupancy, temporary buildings. Most of our buildings go on agricultural land, but it is important to realize that the type of zoned land your building is going on makes a big difference.

The designation of “temporary” is what often determines if a permit is required. There is a wide variation in what constitutes “temporary”. It is important that you clarify and understand the ruling for your municipality. In some municipalities, if there is anything into the ground, it is no longer temporary. This has lead to people building on the big concrete blocks. In other municipalities, any use of concrete nullifies the classification of temporary. One of the reasons, many of our buildings sit on a base beam with t-post anchors is that it reinforces the idea of temporary.

There is also a significant variation on the threshold size of the building. In some jurisdictions, anything over 100 square feet, regardless of zoning, requires a permit. In other areas, anything under 40 square meters (approx. 640 sqft.) is a tent, as long as it meets the definition of “temporary” and does not need a permit.

Weather Dynamics

Our focus will continue to be on getting an understanding of what it is that you are dealing with so that we can put together a structure package that will serve your needs for years to come.

Educating our customers on weather dynamics on these buildings continues to be a valuable component of that process. Snow load is usually the point that comes up first but an equally important consideration is wind load. We want “temporary” to mean that the building can easily be relocated and not that it can easily blow away.

Many of our customers, who are putting their new building out of sight and they get along with their neighbours, will put up the building without asking questions. This is certainly not a practice we recommend or encourage but acknowledge as a reaction to officials who do not understand these buildings or how they work. We are available to offer an explanation, either verbally or written, upon request. Please be aware that our conversation with your building official does not automatically ensure a favourable outcome.

Engineered Drawings & Getting a Permit

To get a permit, you will need drawings with an engineer’s stamp. We have a generic set of engineer approved drawings for a number of our structure sizes. These are available upon request, at no extra charge for you to use. These drawings show what the building has been evaluated for in the past and what it is good for. The report highlights the requirement of the code and the conformity to it.

It is important that you understand the limitations of the generic drawings since it will impact how you present them. Since it is not practical to have drawings on every variation, it is important that you understand how, what we are giving you, is at least equal or what you are building is an upgrade from the drawing. Even though the sub section of the building code has not changed from when these buildings were reviewed, the way that engineers and building officials deal with them has changed.

Permit & Building Liability

From a liability perspective, engineers will not give a “blanket stamp”. Building officials also often want something current and specific to your project. Other building officials simply want to confirm what this building is generically good for and are fine.

A photocopied set of drawings with a stamp may get you the permit you need but it is important to remember that only a new or original stamp will get you a level of legal protection should anything ever go wrong. The insurance coverage which comes with an original stamp is one of the reasons for the cost. The unfortunate part of this process, is that there is nothing on this which we can do in advance.

We have ways of upgrading our structures for snow and wind loading. In most cases we will recommend these when discussing and quoting the project. Even if you are not going with the upgrades, it is important to understand the options so that you have a back up before your building official denies your request.

Completing the Permit Request

One last thing which you should verify with your building official if you are in a situation of needing a permit, has to do with how the process will be finalized or closed off.

Some officials will hold you responsible for adhering to the drawings and some will come, after completion, to check for themselves. Others will require the engineer to sign off on it.

In the case of the generic drawings, this is not an option and in the case of a new stamp, it will be an expensive add on that you should be aware of.

For an engineer to sign off on something, he or she has to do a visual inspection. Photographs are not admissible. Depending on where you live, there could be a significant travel cost added to the bill.

Ultimately, it is your responsibility to verify requirements and ensure compliance before building.

Greenhouses 101 & 202

Norm spoke at the Guelph Organic Conference January 31, 2015 on Greenhouses 101: Knowing the basics before you buy-Choices and Consquences
You can find the articles and information posted, as well as a video of his presentation and the Q&A below.

Greenhouses 101: What are you trying to accomplish? What are you dealing with?Greenhouses 101: Climate and Air Effects on your Structure
Greenhosues: 101: Covering Options
Greenhouses 101: Greenhouse Shapes & Configurations
Greenhouses 101: Orientation and Location
Greenhouses 101: Knowing the basics before you buy Greenhouses 101: Greenhouse Choices

Norm did a presentation at the Guelph Organic Conference on Greenhouses 202: Making sure your structure survives the elements. The presentation is broken into three parts for easy viewing, the last section of which is the Q&A. These tips apply for greenhouses, storage buildings, livestock shelters, really anything we sell. Key Points Covered in the presentation:

  1. Some basic principles of engineering so that the forces exerted on the buildings could be better understood.
  2. The many components of anchoring. Anchoring prevents a structure from settling under snow load, prevents lifting under aerodynamic forces and prevents shifting with wind forces.
  3. The similarities of an airplane wing to the shape of a structure. What happens when surfaces become bigger, wider. lower and higher.
  4. How uneven loads can happen and how to prevent them.
  5. The proper procedure to removing excessive snow load

Read more here: Greenhouses 202: How to get your structure to survive the elements

Watch more here:

The benefits and drawbacks of forced ventilation

By definition, forced ventilation included an electrically operated exhaust fan at one end of a building and intake louvre at the opposite end.

The biggest advantage of this system is how simply it can be automated. Running your power supply through a thermostat will allow the system to come on and shut off at the set point.

There are numerous things which need to be considered for forced ventilation to be effective.

The prime consideration is proper sizing of the system. Most greenhouses require one air change per minute to keep the temperature within a tolerable range for the plants. Fans are rated for the cubic feet of air they can move per minute (cfm). By calculating the air volume in a greenhouse, you can then get a fan that is appropriately sized.

There also is a formula to match the air intake to the exhaust. When the intake is too small, the capacity of the fan will be restricted but if the intake is too large, it also is undesirable. A properly sized intake will create some turbulence so that incoming air is mixed with the existing air before it moves through.

Consideration must also be given if the intake has netting over it to control incoming weed seeds or insects. This will restrict more air flow than is usually expected.

The orientation of fan / louvre combination is important. If the intake is on a south facing wall, the incoming air will always be warmer than average. This means you will be moving warm air rather than cooling.

If a fan is blowing into a prevailing wind, the fan capacity can be significantly decreased as well. If you do not have a choice but point that way, it would be wise to consider a hood or other deflector over the fan.

When you are deciding on what size fan to get, it is often suggested to get two fans with that combined capacity. It will cost more up front, but the extra payback will be on extra flexibility or options for ventilating. This gives you the option of “half capacity”.

When planning for a forced ventilation system, it is important to understand the requirements and cost of getting the electrical service to that area and also what the on going operating costs will be. In both cases, these expenses can be significant.

One last thing which needs to be pointed out for consideration has to do with irrigation. In a forced ventilation structure, things dry out more quickly and they will also dry out unevenly. Just something to be aware of when you are thinking everything will get watered the same.

In our next article we will explore the opposite end of this spectrum … some of the options of passive venting.